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EP 539 | AIRED 05/24/2021
Mr. Blaine Calkins (MP for Red Deer-Lacombe, CPC): Ms. Wristen, do you have any evidence to support your claim that DFO is being purposefully negligent? You made a pretty bold statement before the committee, indicating that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is being wilfully negligent in studying things like sea lice and so on to fulfill their mandate of being pro fish farm.
Ms. Karen Wristen (Executive Director, Living Oceans Society): Yes, I did not call them wilfully negligent. I do not think this is negligent conduct. I think this is deliberate conduct.
You will all be familiar with the Cohen commission's failure to find what Justice Cohen referred to as “the smoking gun”. I think we may have found it. It's a new study that has come out of the SSHI dealing with a bacterium called Tenacibaculum. I am going to henceforth refer to it by the disease it causes, which is “mouth rot”.
--- What you just heard were excerpts from Ms. Karen Wristen, Executive Director of Living Oceans Society’s official testimony to the Canadian Federal Government’s Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.
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Mr. Ken Hardie (MP for Fleetwood-Port Kells, Lib.): Okay. With the identification of these new pathogens—and here I wouldn't want you to speculate—it would seem, obviously, that something has changed if they didn't exist before, if they're new, if they were introduced or again naturally occurring. I guess the key question here, with the background of all of these pathogens being present in our wild salmon population, is whether we can do anything about that, or are we simply going to have to watch the inevitable decline of our population because these pathogens are present and will keep circulating among our stocks?
Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders: Well, one of the reasons that we expect pathogens may be more impactful today than they were in the past is not only the potential for interactions with cultured fish—and that could be our hatchery fish and aquaculture—but also the shift in the climate. The relationship between pathogens and disease depends upon the susceptibility of the host as well as the environmental conditions that are experienced. When you have salmon that are swimming through areas of very high temperature, that are experiencing low oxygen and experiencing lower food availability, they will be more vulnerable to infections and to becoming diseased. It's not simply cultured fish. It's the combination of environmental change and cultured fish that we should consider when we're looking at disease-causing potential and the potential of disease to undermine the survival of our wild salmon.
Mr. Blaine Calkins: Has that virus, do you think, always been there and we've just found or discovered it because we just looked for it? What's the baseline? Are we starting to establish a baseline? Give me a sense of where this whole thing is at, because it all seems relatively new to me, and I'm not sure that it's not always been there.
Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders: We are trying to establish a baseline. One of the ways you can determine how long a virus may have been here is through sequencing. You look at the depth of the sequencing phylogeny for the virus, and we do know that there are different variants. We do see some depth in the sequences that suggest that they've been here for a period of time. We are planning to carry out more sequencing and do a more robust phylogenetic analysis like we've done with PRV. We'll be having a paper on that coming out in a couple of weeks where we can really look more holistically at the distribution across the province and in fish from Washington as well, because we capture them along our coast, and try to get an idea of the depth of how long that virus may have been here and whether it likely evolved here on this coast.
Mr. Gord Johns: If the minister approves the transfer of farmed fish into the Discovery Islands, should they be screened for Tenacibaculum, given the low returns? Could you also explain how the effect of naturally occurring viruses is different from that of viruses coming from fish farms?
Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders: Well a lot of viruses coming from fish farms are also naturally occurring. We have to be careful about thinking that they are two completely separate things. Tenacibaculum is not going to be an easy one to control because Tenacibaculum is found in marine fish, as well as salmon and farmed fish. It isn't only found in farmed salmon. The issue with farmed salmon is that it may be considerably increased in terms of the abundance of Tenacibaculum released into the water column. Certainly, the early eDNA studies, environmental DNA studies, show that Tenacibaculum is concentrated around farms. I think that we do need to look again at treatment effects and what we can do in terms of decreasing the loads of that particular bacterium on those farms. As well, our data actually do show that we're seeing Tenacibaculum present in farmed fish before they've moved them out into the ocean. Likely when they are introducing salt water into the hatcheries, they're already introducing that bacterium into their fish. You know, the easiest way to control... Well, it may not be easy. However, if the water going into a farm and the water exiting a farm was all filtered, you know, like in closed containment systems or systems on land, we wouldn't have any of these problems because sea lice wouldn't infect farmed fish because sea lice would be filtered out of the water column. Therefore, they wouldn't affect our wild fish as well. You could do that with a lot of things like Tenacibaculum. Viruses will be harder, but the fact of the matter is that if farmed fish were less stressed, if they weren't stressed by sea lice and all the treatments and everything associated them, they wouldn't have the same potential to develop disease. Disease wouldn't ensue to the same degree if we controlled what comes in and what goes out of farms.
Mr. Robert Morrissey (MP for Egmont, Lib.):
I must say I've been most impressed with the level of competency we've seen before this committee of the DFO personnel who have appeared from the scientific and research community. Dr. Miller-Saunders, I'm impressed with your passion for the science that you're doing here and the cause that's at hand. I truly hope that the groups that come together utilize the great resource that has been on display before this committee, namely, within the scientific branch of DFO, on a host of very.... We may not agree; we may not like the message, but it's clear, from the witness I've been listening to here, that you're bringing it forward in a non-biased stance. I think that's extremely important. The decision-makers simply have to listen.
The Chair (Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)):
That expires all of our time for today's committee meeting. I want to thank the departmental officials for appearing before the committee today. I agree with that comments by committee members that it's been probably one of the most informative meetings we've had on this subject for quite some time.
--- We will provide a link to the full meeting below this video and encourage everyone to watch it or read the evidence as we also agree that this has to be one of the most informative meetings on the state of Pacific Salmon. We will also provide a download link to the documents from the ATIP (or Access to Information and Privacy) request.
ATIP Download: ATIP_DFO_Pacific_Salmon-A-2020-01561-DSP-FINAL.pdf (170mb)
Full Meeting Video: FOPO State of the Pacific Salmon April 26, 2021